Author Topic: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"  (Read 298 times)

Mac

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1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« on: 30 Aug 22, 02:11 pm »




I think I've found my muse  ;D

It's rather a long beast - any suggestions on how best to alter the proportions to keep in line with the general CK footprint?
Any suggestions on software that can quickly rescale an image based on, say wheel diameter??

Mac

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Mac

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #1 on: 30 Aug 22, 05:15 pm »
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Knocked this up in Sketchup in my lunch break - looks about right although I'm gonna need to remeasure the workshop  ;D

Konrad

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #2 on: 31 Aug 22, 09:11 am »
Any suggestions on software that can quickly rescale an image based on, say wheel diameter??
With mine, I brought the image into Sketchup, drew a rough wheel to the correct size, and then just re-sized the image so it matched the wheel sizes. That then allowed me to draw out the profile shape at the center of the image, them move down the length of the image, extruding each section, re-sizing the extruded face with each section, tweak the profile and repeat, down the length.
I hope that makes sense, but let me know if you'd like to see the tutorial video I used.

Mac

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #3 on: 31 Aug 22, 11:00 am »
With mine, I brought the image into Sketchup, drew a rough wheel to the correct size, and then just re-sized the image so it matched the wheel sizes. That then allowed me to draw out the profile shape at the center of the image, them move down the length of the image, extruding each section, re-sizing the extruded face with each section, tweak the profile and repeat, down the length.
I hope that makes sense, but let me know if you'd like to see the tutorial video I used.

Thanks, that’s kind of what I ended up doing too!

I think my rear axle is a little close to the seat back, short of fitting the chain drive externally… a bit more tweaking then I think I’ll start on the CAD (cardboard aided design) stage

Mac

Konrad

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #4 on: 31 Aug 22, 12:15 pm »
I found a pretty good sketchup model of a GX200 to use in mine, which allowed me to shuffle the axel and brake around to clear it, and make sure the ley-shaft will fit. Let me know if you'd like a copy of that file too, or my steering wheel.

SteveP

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #5 on: 10 Sep 22, 11:13 am »
Hi Konrad,
I'm just measuring up for my Cyclekart (Aston Martin - Green Pea) and would appreciate a copy or link to the Sketchup tutorial and GX200 model

Konrad

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #6 on: 12 Sep 22, 10:17 am »
Hi Steve,
Typically, I cant seem to find the exact video I found before. This one shows the concept:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miY_xtSEcOA
It's method number 2 in the video, except I did it horizontally, rather than vertically. I did it in stages, starting from near the center of my car, using a side-view and and end-on view profile, over-laid at 90degrees to each other... select the end-view profile face, push/pull it to around 10cm deep, resize and move the resulting new face (leading edge only) so it lines up with the side-view profile, then push/pull that new face another 10cm and repeat. I hope that makes sense, but feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk it through on a video call or something.
Here's a link to the engine model: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QRbW1YaWH-Rrv45uTSG24WuWuPCRQy6y/view?usp=sharing
I put an image over-laid onto it, showing the dimensions (from the Honda website, I think), so you can check the scale is set correctly for you, and then delete the image.
Hope that helps,
Konrad

SteveP

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #7 on: 13 Sep 22, 05:09 pm »
Thanks Konrad,
Will have a go!

Mac

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #8 on: 16 Sep 22, 11:13 pm »
I found a pretty good sketchup model of a GX200 to use in mine, which allowed me to shuffle the axel and brake around to clear it, and make sure the ley-shaft will fit. Let me know if you'd like a copy of that file too, or my steering wheel.

Thanks Konrad,
Found a suitable model of a GX200 in the SketchUp warehouse (Wasn’t to scale, but sorted that quickly enough). I think I’m as close as I can on screen.
Mac

Drag

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #9 on: 25 Sep 22, 10:43 pm »


I think I've found my muse  ;D

It's rather a long beast - any suggestions on how best to alter the proportions to keep in line with the general CK footprint?
Any suggestions on software that can quickly rescale an image based on, say wheel diameter??

Mac

I love your inspiration car! You have an excellent profile picture of the car to work with, so you have a great starting point to scale and downsize from. Start with the wheels and tires you will use or cardboard patterns of them. Place them against a wall at the proper wheelbase you will be using, then draw a paper or cardboard pattern on the wall adjusting the length of the hood, frame, tail and seating area until you have a shape that works well for your visualization of the car. This also allows you to adjust the ride height and seating/floorpan location to help with its center of balance. Plan on too much seating area, it is easier to make the seating area smaller than it is to make it bigger.

Drag

Mac

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #10 on: 10 Nov 22, 12:10 am »
Not much to update at this stage - been thoroughly enjoying myself in working out the build process on paper. I’ve decided to stick to the original CK guidelines and keep it non-road legal. I toyed with the idea to run it around to a few local events, maybe that’ll be for build #2 🤣
Sticking with a 95% wood build, 6mm/18mm plywood body with ally hood. Frame rails will be 3x2 timber (hopefully ash if I can lay my hands on some) with partially hidden angle iron bracing.

Just need a clear weekend to collect the ply and get it started…

Mac

Jimr1999

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #11 on: 10 Nov 22, 07:37 am »
Planning is key Mac.
I urge you to look at the Bloody Mary build on the gittrevillegp.com website, especially the chassis build page here... http://gittrevillegp.com/www.gittrevillegp.com/Blog/Entries/2011/1/22_BUILD_SERIES_no._4__Frames_(and_tubs).html
3/4" ply might be a tad too structural (and heavy?) ... it also suggests a very neat, strong and light chassis rail substitute for ash if you are struggling to get any.
Hope this helps and the design looks top hole!
Jim
PS. the slideshow has a lot of info too... gittrevillegp.com/www.gittrevillegp.com/Media/slideshow.html?backgroundColor=rgb(0%2C 0%2C 0)&reflectionHeight=100&reflectionOffset=2&captionHeight=100&fullScreen=0&transitionIndex=2
« Last Edit: 10 Nov 22, 07:48 am by Jimr1999 »
... You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead.

RhysN

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #12 on: 10 Nov 22, 08:03 am »
Or have a look at this link, if you click on the picture of any of the cars there is a huge amount of info. 70" wheelbase would make this car look  wrong IMHO.
https://gittrevillegp.com/cyclekarts-in-profile/
We must avoid torturing our brains with false problems, it occupies but it can annoy. In jest!

Mac

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #13 on: 10 Nov 22, 01:25 pm »
Planning is key Mac.
I urge you to look at the Bloody Mary build on the gittrevillegp.com website, especially the chassis build page here... http://gittrevillegp.com/www.gittrevillegp.com/Blog/Entries/2011/1/22_BUILD_SERIES_no._4__Frames_(and_tubs).html
3/4" ply might be a tad too structural (and heavy?)
Perfect! The "tub" design is what I had in mind; with the base and strengthening ribs in 18mm (which in fairness, could be 1/2" to save weight) and the sides in 6mm - doubled up/strengthened where required (seat base, etc). The upper bodywork would be made of ally and plastic hoarding type materials (in my mind at this stage).

Or have a look at this link, if you click on the picture of any of the cars there is a huge amount of info. 70" wheelbase would make this car look  wrong IMHO.
https://gittrevillegp.com/cyclekarts-in-profile/
Thats a great resource I hadn't seen yet - thank you. I had shrunk the wheelbase to fit the 70" "standard" but I see the benefits of keeping the proportions more in line with the original...

Mac

RhysN

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Re: 1923 Fiat SB4 "Mefistofele"
« Reply #14 on: 10 Nov 22, 01:46 pm »
Thats a great resource I hadn't seen yet - thank you. I had shrunk the wheelbase to fit the 70" "standard" but I see the benefits of keeping the proportions more in line with the original...

Mac
[/quote]
I tend to use wheel diameters, eg 3 wheel diameters between the wheels in this case.
« Last Edit: 10 Nov 22, 01:48 pm by RhysN »
We must avoid torturing our brains with false problems, it occupies but it can annoy. In jest!