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Forums => Build journals => Topic started by: Jimr1999 on 18 Feb 22, 11:24 am

Title: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 18 Feb 22, 11:24 am
Hello all,
It started getting a bit much for the technical section so, as I now intend to build, I thought I would move things into the right catagory.... So continuing on from my thread on "BSA 3 wheeler ideas for springs" on the technical forum, here we go.
My inspiration, without stealing a phot too blatently is here...
https://www.prewarcar.com/288973-bsa-three-wheeler

So far I have managed to CAD up rough a working front end with not too many obvious clashes of mechanics.
https://www.tinkercad.com/things/4Y7iKZgHcGn-fantabulous-krunk/edit?sharecode=y2tkrSQap2IaMf3w5WkV0dbn53ZLZsqAQxLggF6SLcM

And have just layed out the full size chassis, without detail on the rear end...

Next is to buy some bits. The painful part.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 22 Feb 22, 07:19 am
Been playing around with the front uprights to connect to the springs. I know there can be issues with rose joints, but the design is fail safe as it is encapsulated and can be adapted to top hats if failure is an issue. It would allow a few degrees of KPI adjustment...
Work in progress, your thoughts please.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: RhysN on 22 Feb 22, 07:57 am
Very nice. The lawnmower racing guys use a very similar system with no issues, and are much more rough and tumble than us.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 25 Feb 22, 08:52 am
Been buying this week. Wheels on the way, spindles and steering arms from Gemini, a few bits of ironmongry and a lead on an engine. Still got to locate a TAV. It seems like I am making a lot of it up on the hoof at the moment and I have been looking at the spring loadings on the front end...
Loadings at zero, 25kg and 50kg max deflection about 27mm
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 27 Feb 22, 09:40 am
I got the spindles and steering arms from Gemini yesterday and they look very sturdy. Impressive. I have been messing around with a monocoque timber chassis utilising a smaller rear pit bike wheel (14" with a wider tyre) as this will be near impossible to see when it is bodied. This will give me a little more engine room to play with - which is my next set of experiments. It should have the added bonus of a stiffer rear wheel that does not need such a large gear attached to it. Wheels arrive Monday  :)
Your comments welcome.

Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 04 Mar 22, 11:11 am
Wheel day. I have all 3 now and after reading a few build journals and articles here I bought a 60 tooth sprocket for the rear. A total dinner plate of a thing and it has the correct PCD to mount to the 14" rear. With the tyre, the gearing would be equivalent to a 71/72 tooth sprocket on a 17" + 2 1/2" tyre wheel as my rear single wheel tyre will be a little fatter and wider than the fronts.
I hope this gives me a reasonable ratio and, as always I welcome your comments/ experiences.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 05 Mar 22, 05:06 pm
What a beautiful day! I get to see you fellows on Zoom and five hours grinding metal in the sun. All in all a good one.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 06 Mar 22, 03:41 pm
Well, the expensive bit might be on the wane now. Ordered a clone Honda Gx200 and a clone TAV. These might not be the highest quality items available "on't tinternet" but it is a start, and until proven, the whole concept should not be too powerful. More gloriously sunny grinding and fitting today.

Job one.
 Finish the front upright body ready for welding and make a foolproof jig for my friend the welder.

Job two.
 Make a chuck out of scrap wood to mount the big rear cog on my wood lathe to put a keyway in to match the key on the wheel face - An epic battle of high speed steel vs high carbon steel and willpower. all I can say is it worked. It might not have met health and safety requirements of a workplace, but I am not at work! (the alternative was to remove the key from the wheel with a grinder)

Job three.
 Emery a few thousandths off the spacers on the Gemini hub/spindles to make a polished sliding fit into the 16mm rose joints (see CAD image earlier in this thread)

Job four.
 Set out centres on carriers for drilling to accept rose joints set to a 6 degree caster.

Drink a beer in sunshine and draw spacers for turning.
Another good day.

Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: David F-R on 06 Mar 22, 06:18 pm
Looking very neat Jim, and great progress for the day.

Remind me please - will it be front or rear engine?
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 06 Mar 22, 06:30 pm
Looking very neat Jim, and great progress for the day.

Remind me please - will it be front or rear engine?
Rear, I think for a first shot at a cyclekart, the drive needs to be as simple as possible. I suppose it is actually mid engined  as I am trying to squeeze it in between the seat and the smaller rear wheel. The motor and TAV should be here mid. March and until then I can't finalise the chassis. Plenty to do until then. 😁
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: David F-R on 07 Mar 22, 09:47 am
I think you're very wise to go with the engine behind the seat. It keeps the drive system relatively simple. My kart (my first also and at the drawing stage) will be pretty much down the tried and tested line.
That said, in my dream world, a twice size Hoglet engine on the front of a Morganesque 3 wheeler would be an interesting challenge. It won't get beyond the dream world but still interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzl2TUn3DeA
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris Brown on 07 Mar 22, 09:55 am
It's a pity there isn't a 200cc v twin available.  Having said that I've been wondering if a pair of the 99cc horizontal mower engines could be reworked and coupled together to make a v twin.

Chris
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 07 Mar 22, 12:09 pm
The nearest thing in a honda lawnmower engine...
https://www.engine-specs.net/honda/gcv530.html
Just a tad more power than we should use :-)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: David F-R on 07 Mar 22, 02:28 pm
If I get laid up again (just beginning to get a little better) I'll have a play with some drawings. Still can't figure out the the drive to the back wheel from a longitudinal shaft though.
It was just a thought/dream. (New thread if I pursue the idea.)

I shall not highjack your build thread any further, Jim. On with this excellent build and roll on next week's instalment.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: RhysN on 07 Mar 22, 02:59 pm
I know it's not BSA, but there were a fairly good number of single cylinder Morgans, especially for record breaking. As small as 250cc!
Have a look on the Cyclekart club forum US based one) for "thinking outside the box" for a shaft drive. Link later.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: RhysN on 07 Mar 22, 03:34 pm
I know it's not BSA, but there were a fairly good number of single cylinder Morgans, especially for record breaking. As small as 250cc!
Have a look on the Cyclekart club forum US based one) for "thinking outside the box" for a shaft drive. Link https://www.cyclekartclub.com/forum/cyclekart-tech-forum.2/1928-desoto-out-of-the-box-build.7257/.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris Brown on 07 Mar 22, 06:11 pm
The Yamaha Townmate, their equivalent of the Honda Cub, used shaft drive, so a rear wheel from one of those would suit.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: David F-R on 07 Mar 22, 09:39 pm
The Yamaha Townmate, their equivalent of the Honda Cub, used shaft drive, so a rear wheel from one of those would suit.
And the 90 degree gearbox is quite cheap on ebay.
All good to know for the future, thanks Chris.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris Brown on 07 Mar 22, 11:13 pm
The 90 degree gearbox is integral with the Townmate wheel, just need to get the complete assembly.

Chris
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 09 Mar 22, 06:47 am
... I suppose if one were to go down that route of front engine, shaft, final drive. It could be possible to put a 1:1 bevel box at the wheel end of the shaft and add a TAV to the output with chain final drive.
If you got the bevel box output shaft on the same rotational axis as a swing arm pivot, you could design a swing arm with two pivots (one either side of the box) and suspend the rear end with torsion bars made from socket set bars.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255047549642?hash=item3b6204c2ca:g:JJ4AAOSwulJg6AlH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAMQDjyAJCg

... But complexity and weight are always just other things waiting to go wrong. :-)
I will keep it simple this time. ;-)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 11 Mar 22, 12:16 pm
Been playing around with the rear end now the TAV and engine are here. Looks like I can just get it in behind the bulkhead if I have the TAV in this location.
Having had no experience of setting up a TAV, is their any difference in functionality in differing positions?
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: RhysN on 11 Mar 22, 05:02 pm
The TAV will work exactly the same in any orientation, except in some cases there is fouling between the engine and ribs on the face of the TAV, the TAV  can be safely gently massaged.
FWIW the current one I am building is vertically down.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 12 Mar 22, 06:23 pm
This week I have been mostly...

Getting the tyres and tubes on so the rims don't get too battered with all the fitting

Making the wooden chassis and gusseting it with ply (back end still to finalise now I have my motor, TAV and wheels)

Scratching my head on how to attach the back end and flukeing a discounted internal lintel at B+Q for a fiver that seems up to the job with a bit of grinding and drilling.

Grinding the lintel and wearing my cutting disc down to a nub and blowing a battery on the grinder

Scratching my head regarding the engine mounting plate and coming up with a cunning plan

Thinking hard about the spring set up

Persuading a colleague who turns to turn up some stuff for various spacers, bearing mounts

And having the occasional beer. Worked up until I get bits now - have brakes going around my head but I have a lot to do in the garden tomorrow so time to put the Kart on the back burner until I can get my hands on the drill press and a 15mm drill at work.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 14 Mar 22, 04:52 pm
Front uprights together today, thanks to a welder mate and a very accurate turner friend the Olite top hat bushes fit a treat.
I have bushed the spring hinges in nylon and hope that the friction when I nip them together damps the system slightly (who knows?)

Didn't turn out too far away from the CAD model
I had one hairy moment when I set the first one up caster forward by accident and the steering arm clashed with the hinge (wrong side! Doh!) but now I have something to tie the springs together. Yay!

Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: David F-R on 15 Mar 22, 09:48 am
Looking very smart Jim.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 20 Mar 22, 09:51 am
Morning all.
 Been a busy weekend here and I have got to the point where things are coming together and in doing so creating their own challenges.
So far since the last update I have:

Added the spacers and bearings to the front wheels where I found out that they clashed with the Gemini front spindle/ steering arm if the disc mount side was put inwards but outwards cleared everything with 10mm to spare. I looked at Marek's build and it seemed that he had managed to overcome this somehow.

Glued a few more bits to the chassis to support the rear wheel fixtures and give it a tail for bodywork to stop at/ bulkhead support for seat fixing whilst gusseting the joins.

Mocked up the front end in scrap wood to determine spring length and worked out spacers necessary on the rear wheel to centralise things.

Attached loosely and thought about the rear pit bike hydraulic brake, which looks up to the task

drew up my mounting points for the rear wheel strengthening plates/ brake anchor/ chain tensioners.

Problems to solve...

1 The track is now perilously close to exactly a metre. This leaves no potential at all to adjust camber, especially out to negative camber.
Potential solution. 1. find a way to turn the wheels disc mounts in and gain 20mm ish 2. shorten the springs a little and live with it with the disc mounts (unused anyway) on the "wrong" side.

2 Torsional stiffness of the chassis. At this moment of incompleteness, the chassis is very twisty when loaded (I sat my 100kg frame on it for a bit) to the point it is a tilting three wheeler. not a good thing if you cant control the roll.
Solution is in the form of glue blocks, ply floor under slung, more glue blocks and a ply topper to the bit between my legs creating a sort of torque tube out of the chassis members (the original BSA had somthing similar except it was a tube). The bodywork should add a little stiffness too. (I speculate about how stiff this will end up, it is guesswork at the moment not having a stress analysing CAD program so the result may provide an "interesting" ride)

3 Steering. the controll arms are going to have to droop down a few degrees towards the steering arms from the Pitman arm. I envisage this providing a bit of bump steer but I can't imagine that it will be too significant???

I am pleased with how the front end is working out so far but I am sure it will throw me a few more challenges.
On with the day now.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: RhysN on 20 Mar 22, 04:27 pm
Some potential answers
1, don't worry about width. I have not seen anyone get excited about others that don't measure.
2 Make the body as a plywood torsion box and make that an integral part of the whole thing. If you did that with 6mm ply the torsional stiffness will be immense, especially if you can complete as many sides of the box as possible. Front (where your feet will go can have  sides, front top and rear bulkhead with an opening enough to slide your legs through. Cockpit area, double up on the sides. Make the seat back integral to the side and bottom, and STRONG as you will lean on it to get in and out. Yes I have broken one to learn from.
3 Don't worry.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 20 Mar 22, 05:01 pm
Thanks for that Rhys, always thinking too hard :-)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: synthpunk on 20 Mar 22, 08:53 pm
I made my torsion box body up out of a series of smaller torsion boxes. Seat, rails, body sides, scuttle, seat back; etc… all out of 6mm ply. Built them as as true and straight as I could, Then bonded and bolted them all together. It is, as far as I can tell so far, immensely strong. I also filled all the void spaces within the lattice with expanding foam, which is definitely optional. All the metal spinny bits bolt on via subframes made from aluminium plate or extrusion.

It’s definitely a unibody rather than a monocoque. It’s an immensely pleasing object to have hiding in the garage.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 20 Mar 22, 09:04 pm
Very nice Mr Synthpunk 😁
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 26 Mar 22, 01:51 pm
So, this week I have found a little time to progress.

Got some spacers made up for the rear axle

drilled some stainless steel strip for the front end (old 2' rules that were deemed out of standard)

Shaped and sized the front springs

Dry fit the front end and worried it was too stiff. - Stopped worrying and got on with it.

Shaped its mouth parts

Ground and set up my rear "drop outs" for the rear axle, drilled the ends ready for the chain tensioners, marked my milled slots out for a mate to do and set out the hole for the brake caliper retaining pin.

I am still finalising the design of the floor box but need a bit more time as work is busy. Easter might see some more progress.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris L on 26 Mar 22, 06:05 pm
Great job !!  Like the use of Stainless Steel Rule.   ;D

Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: David F-R on 26 Mar 22, 06:49 pm
Looking amazing Jim.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 27 Mar 22, 08:39 am
Looking at body line this morning and pondering clamping brackets for the front springs

I am happily within proportion for width from the original BSA (42" and 47.5") at 900mm for the body and a small shade under 1000m for the track. It looks like the starter pull of the motor could stay inboard which was one of my concerns.

I will re-site the fuel tank on the other side to the engine to balance things out a bit.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: RhysN on 27 Mar 22, 09:17 am
I'm hoping I'm not teaching anyone how to suck eggs, but you do know the starter unit can be rotated to several positions, it doesn't have to be in that location.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 27 Mar 22, 09:31 am
I did not Rhys! Thanks for the tip, this engine is new territory for me :-)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Tinworm on 27 Mar 22, 12:07 pm
It looks extraordinarily innovative and so well executed, Jim. Do I gather you have a technical background?

What tyre did you choose?
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 27 Mar 22, 12:15 pm
@ Tinworm, I am a wood butcher by trade, built bars, guitars, bench work, furniture, site fixing and shopfitting  but have spannered things in the past. I built a Lomax 223 back in my late teens early 20's and it took me forever in a rented council garage with no electricity in the late Eighties.
I have probably got the cheapest tyres on Ebay on the front end, which I will regret I'm sure as although the wheel runs true the tyre does not when you spin it up. The rear is a bit better quality but still a no-name scooter 13" job.
The point of the tyres was just to get me started with sizes and stop me knocking hell out of the rims with all the dry fitting before paint.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253957209924?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris Brown on 27 Mar 22, 12:35 pm
There are six holes in the pull start flange, and 12 holes in my aftermarket shroud, only 3 of those have threads. So you can unbolt the pull start and rotate it to a position that suits you. A longer pull start cord can also be fitted to allow "remote" operation. If you can't get the position you want you could always add rivnuts to 3 of the other holes.

As for tyres you don't want too much grip on the back, if you have there's a tendency to end up on two wheels, not telling how I know that.
 
Chris
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 03 Apr 22, 08:15 am
Thanks all for the tips on turning the starter, it was a 2 minute job and seems well sited now.
Lots of little jobs this week,

Rotating the starter
Getting the rear wheel attachment milled, drilled and welded to its sub-frame, sorting out the chain tensioner / wheel aligning mounts.

Getting the brake retaining pin in the right spot and welded up

Making a set of spring clamps and adding a bit to the front end to make the springs sit parallel (more grinding and drilling still need fixing)

Taking a diversion when the guts of a door closer drew my eye towards it's rack and pinion, spring and potential Pitman arm.

Ordering the plywood (no bleeding birch ply to be had from any of my suppliers, had to go far eastern  >:( )

doing some scaling for the body and being pleasantly surprised as to how well it scales, even with 27" seat back to scuttle top.

Grinding away a tiny bit of TAV for clearance around my chain tensioner roller (necessary on the slack side of the chain to avoid a clash with the TAV, looks like it will work)
 All in all not much visual progress but a fair few jobs done. Got to garden and relax today. :-)


Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: David F-R on 04 Apr 22, 08:32 am
You've been busy Jim.
I notice a 685mm on the sketch between seat back and dash. Is that a fairly standard size in order to get in?
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 04 Apr 22, 08:36 am
Reading the USA forum, most people seem to agree 27 inch is about enough, I am fortunate in the original scales to about that at 0.75
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: David F-R on 04 Apr 22, 08:41 am
Reading the USA forum, most people seem to agree 27 inch is about enough, I am fortunate in the original scales to about that at 0.75
Thanks Jim.
Looks like I shall have to revisit my body profile. (By 'my' I mean the cyclekart, though the current extension on the front of mine could be altered a bit!)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 08 Apr 22, 01:08 pm
Well the plywood came and it was the usual made in china stuff that makes me cry every time I saw through a void. A bit of careful cutting has just about got the stuff I need from the thicker board. The dash backer is yet to finally shape due to needing a physical reference to get a couple of measurements.  I just got 27" after the transition from 15 degrees negative at the seat back to 7.5 degrees negative at the dash.
Made the braces for under the floor, half lapped and glue blocked with P.U.
Made the framework for the cab side panels
Finished off the spring clamps.

Incongruous picture from the bottom of the garden as our local mountain was doing a good impression of Ayers rock this morning at sunrise.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: David F-R on 08 Apr 22, 06:21 pm
Fantastic progress Jim. It's really looking car shaped!
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 09 Apr 22, 02:25 pm
Sorting out the front end today for a couple of hours and thinking about brake lines.
Do I go flexible or rigid?
The pit bike caliper came with a cylinder attached for a rear foot break on a bike, Obviously this is not long enough. I can get up to a 2m flexible braided hose but would this lose too much in efficiency and make things spongy?
Will the cylinder reservoir built in be sufficient or is it better to put in a remote reservoir?

Steering will be my next thing after, or at the same time as that as I wait for a few bits.

The space to get in and out - 27" top of dash/ bodywork to back works for me and my 6'4" frame, the knees just clear the dash and the width of the thing makes getting in and out do-able without too many acrobatics... It could almost seat two little uns!

Off for some relaxation now - and maybe a beer.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: dunworkin on 09 Apr 22, 06:14 pm
Love the use of "found objects " in your springs, some might call it "art "
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 09 Apr 22, 06:26 pm
If your definition of art is anything that makes you feel, I think most cyclekarts are probably art 😁
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: RhysN on 10 Apr 22, 08:06 am
Jim, braided lines will be fine.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 10 Apr 22, 08:16 am
Thanks again Rhys, this will simplify things a bit
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Adrian on 10 Apr 22, 11:22 pm
Really good thread Jim, interesting ideas on a good inspiration car.
The brakes are important as several of us will testify!
A few things are essential to understand.
Brakes work by converting kinetic energy into heat energy and then dissipating that heat faster than the friction of the pad against the disc can produce it, no matter how hard you press the pedal.

Assuming your brakes are hydraulically operated, when you put your foot on the brake you are pressurising the fluid in the master cylinder which in turn pushes the master cylinder piston outwards, moving fluid through the pipework, pushing the brake pads into contact with the brake disc. The harder you press, the higher the pressure and more friction is created which is instantly turned into heat and stored in the disc.
When you lift your foot off the brake, the pressure behind the piston in the brake caliper drops to zero and the brake pads are pulled back, away from the pads by the piston seal (which actually grips the piston slightly in order to do so). The friction drops to zero.
Now the disc can start to dissipate the stored heat and cool down, ready for the next brake application.
Lesson over so back to your point about building a system……..
The volume of the pressurised fluid displaced by the piston in the Master Cylinder must match the volume of fluid required for the Brake Caliper to move it’s piston far enough to push the pads against the disc. 
If the master cylinder is too big, the pedal movement will be very small and may be small enough to overcome the return action of the piston seal. This will cause the brake pads to constantly rub on the disc, warming it up. More importantly perhaps, you will have very little in the way of ‘feel’ or ‘feedback’ during braking and the disc will already be warmer.
If the master cylinder is too small, the brake pedal travel will be too long and the brakes will feel very spongy. Possibly, the volume in the master cylinder may be less than the volume required to move the brake pads far enough so the brakes don’t work at all!
Getting the balance right is the trick.
I have always bought a brake 'set' of Master Cylinder and Caliper (from Gemini) to ensure all is well from the start.
Make no mistake, brakes work a lot harder than you might think.
In the past, one of our members built a CycleKart which he fitted with Mountain Bike disc brakes. This seemed a good, cheap option which worked well until one day, it was going fast into a hairpin. 
Several corners had already been taken by then and the disc was no doubt very hot.
When the brake was pressed hard the disc instantly heated up to a temperature that it’s low mass could neither store for long enough or dissipate it's heat fast enough. The brake stopped working almost instantly with the result that the Cyclekart crashed heavily into the banking. The driver suffered an injury which he is still suffering from.
The crash was wrongly assumed to be ‘driver error’.
At the next meeting a 'guest' driver had an almost identical crash and was very lucky to get away un-harmed. The driver this time however had had a lot of experience driving race cars and he recognised the problem as 'brake fade'.  The small disc and was overwhelmed by the demand placed on it.
The brakes were changed for go-kart brakes and the problem went away.
My advice is to use only Go-Kart brakes, hydraulic or mechanical. (Other suppliers are available) ;>) .
I agree that ordinary flexible pipes are fine. (I use stainless steel braided pipes because I like the look of them).

Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 11 Apr 22, 06:46 am
Thanks Adrien, :)
A little to show my logic so far, any pointers are welcome if people feel I am missing something.
The rear disc is a vented pit bike 210mm one of a good thickness and I would imagine it is an order of magnitude greater in thermal mass than any mountain bike set up I have come across and weighs a lot more. It is a starting point I hope will do the job. I have experienced brake fade in discs in cars (Volvo 340 after a lot of fast hills around the lakes), E bikes and, terrifyingly, on a tandem descending a long hill. (More terrifying for me as the stoker was pleasantly unaware of the potential for disaster)  :)
It is not pleasant and always a product of under-design of the disc - caliper for the end use.
 I only have the one wheel to brake at the back, which has a smaller radius than the fronts but a wider tyre and I estimate a similar contact patch.
 I see that a lot of cyclekarts are one wheel power and one wheel braking. as I am a tadpole trike, this should at least be symmetrical in a straight line.
The caliper is a rear pit bike caliper that is already attached to a master cylinder and a short braided line. It is designed as a rear brake for a motorbike up to 125cc and I am running it on a 10mm oversize disc (Pit bike front 210mm disc to biggest pit bike rear caliper available 200mm. the rotor clears the caliper pins and the contact patch of the pads is within the disc surface). The cylinder should be a match, as it came attached, I just need to get the leverage ratio correct at the pedal. I aim for similar to the pit bike to start with.
My questions above relate to the loss of efficacy of a semi flexible system related to a more rigid system and if I need to have a remote cylinder - I still ponder this one as it may be awkward to check the levels when the box is complete.
I intend to test things out slowly at first, I am sure things will need tweaking a lot when I get rolling.

Your comments welcome as always
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: StefanN on 11 Apr 22, 08:15 am
Hi Jim,
I’ve written a guide to brake system design which you can find in the technical section.    There’s lots of factors, including pedal length, pedal ratio, master cylinder and calliper piston areas, swept volumes, disc diameter, pad design, wheel diameter, weight, number of wheels and braked wheels, cooling etc.   Happy to talk through your design if that’s helpful.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: David F-R on 11 Apr 22, 08:56 am
Hi Jim,
I’ve written a guide to brake system design which you can find in the technical section.    There’s lots of factors, including pedal length, pedal ratio, master cylinder and calliper piston areas, swept volumes, disc diameter, pad design, wheel diameter, weight, number of wheels and braked wheels, cooling etc.   Happy to talk through your design if that’s helpful.
I'm many miles away from this stage Stefan but I'll start reading. Thanks.
There is clearly more to brakes on cks than locos.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 11 Apr 22, 10:28 am
Hi Jim,
I’ve written a guide to brake system design which you can find in the technical section.    There’s lots of factors, including pedal length, pedal ratio, master cylinder and calliper piston areas, swept volumes, disc diameter, pad design, wheel diameter, weight, number of wheels and braked wheels, cooling etc.   Happy to talk through your design if that’s helpful.
Thanks Stephan, if you would PM me a contact I would be most grateful for this 😁
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Adrian on 11 Apr 22, 11:44 am
You'll find Stefans 'Beginners Guide to Brake Dancing' is at the top of the builders blog section in the Technical Section. It is very good.
I thought  you were more of a woody guy than a metal guy hence the lecture, sorry.
You clearly know what I mean. I would have a remote reservoir. Lots of motorbikes have reservoirs on the brake lever??????
Have a nice day.
:>)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 11 Apr 22, 12:23 pm
You'll find Stefans 'Beginners Guide to Brake Dancing' is at the top of the builders blog section in the Technical Section. It is very good.
I thought  you were more of a woody guy than a metal guy hence the lecture, sorry.
You clearly know what I mean. I would have a remote reservoir. Lots of motorbikes have reservoirs on the brake lever??????
Have a nice day.
:>)
[/quoteThanks again for this Adrien, and I really do like the two way conversations these problems bring up, I think about too much in isolation up here in Cumbria. Always welcome pointers, and am always worried I have missed the obvious. No need for any apologies 👍
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 11 Apr 22, 03:50 pm
Today I have been mostly shaping curvy bits.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Adrian on 11 Apr 22, 09:08 pm
Wish I was shaping some curvy bits.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 12 Apr 22, 02:25 pm
Mind -bending day of compound angles into curves, but the engine has clearance and the tail is as near an equilateral gothic arch as makes no difference.
Engine mount marking out next while glue sets.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: TheGiantTribble on 12 Apr 22, 03:08 pm
Can't beat a bit of Gothic Arch now and then!!!
Excellent work, can't wait to see it running.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Adrian on 14 Apr 22, 05:13 pm
What did you use to cut the curves?
:>)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 14 Apr 22, 06:01 pm
@ Adrian
I used a bandsaw to rough them out 2mm ish OS, made a longer than necessary MDF template to fix temporarily for moulding and shaping , set the spindle moulder up to do the external curves off a straight fence, did the internal curves off a pin in the bed on the overhead router mated to the same size cutter, set the spindle moulder up again for the rounded edge on the curved rear end boot edge and cut the rebate for the ply by back fencing with an offset pin on the overhead router.
I am fortunate to have the use of a lot of big woodworking machines.
Sorry if this is a bit technical, but you did ask  ;D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 17 Apr 22, 11:24 am
Easter week and lots to think about. After a chat and some maths with Stefan (Many thanks <hat tip> ) I got the initial design of the brake pedal. Not finalised yet as every move I make now seems to bring it's own challenges.
I may try to go right foot only as it is what I am most comfortable with but if room looks tight then brake to left foot it will have to be.
Played around with the steering column and am waiting on Ebay to deliver the top mount before I can decide on that.
Mounted the engine mounting plate (no slots, I have chain tensioners in the rear axle mounting and a "jockey" wheel on the slack (non driven, return) side of the chain.
Fettled the curves with a plane on the bonnet line,
Checked that I can get the rear axle out without unbolting the subframe (Just, that was lucky) and ordered some more bits to finish the front end.
Need a rest from it this week now. Time to enjoy Easter break.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 23 Apr 22, 05:11 pm
Progress this week.

 Made and junked brake pedal MK1 as it was not ergonomic in the car. Used bits of it to make pedal number two and figured out how to mount it. (many cramps used and a few goes at positioning it.)

Made Pitman arms and got a bud to weld them in place.

Got provisional mountings made for steering column

Attached tie rods and ends and I can attain 3mm toe in with plenty of thread inside the rods  :)

Moved a bulkhead 8mm to clear the tie rod on one side (this gets covered by the bodywork later)

looks like I have enough room for controlls to right foot only - bonus!
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 25 Apr 22, 07:07 am
... You know when a thing takes over your life when...

Me to missus.    How attached to the fish slice are you?

Missus.     Why?

Me.     I could make a left foot rest out of that.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris L on 25 Apr 22, 06:18 pm
That's brilliant  ;D He he he
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 25 Apr 22, 06:23 pm
I swear this thing did not want to be a mere fish slice, the holes in it match the centres to a hinge perfectly and it fits a treat!
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 30 Apr 22, 04:14 pm
Frustrating day trying to get the throttle pedal and linkage right.
Ingredients.
1 pedal of an old MG from Ebay.
One 2.1m length of bicycle gear outer and a 2.15m gear inner.
Several bits of cable attachments from old cycle brakes and derailleurs.
A stainless steel drinking straw and a few nuts and bolts.
A lot of grinding and drilling.

The result works but I think the nylon bushes in the MG throttle pedal are , er , bushed  ;D

I tried adding a spring to the pedal end but the pull from the engine end is more than sufficient with the extra spring to return the arm.
My size 12's seem to clear the pedals o.k.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: David F-R on 01 May 22, 07:01 am
Looking good Jim.
Loads of room for your feet!
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 01 May 22, 07:14 am
One thing I will mention about the driving position for a tall chap like me... It would be impossible to drive with any modesty in a miniskirt.  ;D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 01 May 22, 10:17 am
Not content with slack bushes, I endeavored to produce some out of delrin on the wood lathe by eye and vernier, worked a treat!
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 02 May 22, 01:12 pm
A bank holiday special.
More bodywork and getting to the point where I can see the final shapes in it. Very satisfying.

A lot less satisfying was the blood, sweat and tears the governor removal took.

At one point I was ready to just leave it in but I committed and got the b****y thing out. It was not pretty, and the picks I had turned out not to be man enough for the job and just bent on the circlip.  All I can say is it is out. I then spannered it back tight before looking at the bits and not being able to account for a governor weight hinge pin, so back to bits it was. I found it some time later rolled under the engine whilst out the first time. Still, better safe...

Gardening this afternoon.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 07 May 22, 02:24 pm
Not a lot of visual progress this week but.

1. Got the centre boss of the steering quick release to a colleague to turn to fit my steering column
2 Made a mock up pipe run template from PVC conduit with a heat gun and a bending spring for the exhaust. A friend  is making this for me.
3 Made the brakes work with a little effort and a large spill of brake fluid when master cylinder number one had dry seals and master cylinder number two needed modification to fit the remote reservoir. They feel good now.
4 did a bit more to the frame for the body.
5 Acquired a cheap Ebay steering wheel.
6. Contemplated fabricating a battery drill reverse with a spare old Aldi one with a chuck that has stopped gripping. I cant get my hands on the wheels to go backwards like a four wheeler.
7 Acquired some more broken door closers to take to bits... Watch the other space.

I have a couple of issues to think about for the boot lid. The way it all comes together is not yet fully obvious and I will sleep on that problem. I am sure it will resolve itself. Secondly, I have acquired some Vauxhall small car bonnet hinges that might just hinge the boot lid up and out but I have to mock this up to be sure it works.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Ian Fletcher on 07 May 22, 07:10 pm
thats looking great  8)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 14 May 22, 03:28 pm
This week has been a bit forward and backwards on the Kart.
I spent a day on Friday trying to get a pair of Vauxhall Corsa bonnet hinges to fit the boot lid and open it giving the necessary clearances. I have abandoned that idea and am contemplating other ways to secure it in place.

On the positive side...
1 I got the boot lid frame jointed and glued up
2 I mounted the fuel tank
3 I wired the kill switch and temporarily labeled it. (Synthpunk, the photo is for you ;-) )
4 I finished attaching the steering wheel quick release after a mate turned away the bit I didn't need on the end of the spigot
5 I found a badge that fit in the centre of the steering wheel perfectly
6 I have acquired an 8" x 3-1/2" silencer that looks like it may fit into the exhaust system
7 The Nomex overalls arrived.

Not a bad week but it felt like slow progress to be honest.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: David F-R on 14 May 22, 06:29 pm
I always to look forward to seeing your progress Jim. It's a great cyclekart.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Tinworm on 16 May 22, 01:20 pm
Real craftsmanship here, Jim! It looks amazing
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 21 May 22, 06:36 pm
Weekly update.

I spent some time this week pondering the boot lid hinges... eventually I settled on a simple solution that may just work out as a bit of lucky genius allowing me to both access the starting side of things and the maintenance side of things. A couple of little issues to sort but it feels like progress.
I also took delivery of a caliper that looked like it would do for a hand brake and I think I may have solved that too. The photo shows the handbrake caliper in red. Its linkage arm, in blue, pivots on a bolt to the chassis sub-frame  which in turn is attached to the silver turnbuckle arm that adjusts the caliper as the disc moves in the dropouts when the chain is tensioned. The eagle eyed amongst you may recognise the components of the door closers I have spannered to bits in other threads. A little fettling and I think it will work well.
I have also added a center strip to the boot and a fake hinge line to the bonnet. I have ordered some perforated alloy to cover the boot.

Gratuitous picture of a sunset at ours this week.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 23 May 22, 06:03 pm
A little Monday post work cyclekart building as my perforated alloy off cuts came through the post and I just had to.
 From a distance it should look pretty unnoticeable especially as the angle your eye can see it reduces as you are further away. When it is all painted up. I hope it will provide a cooler engine bay as I read overheating can be an issue with a covered engine bay - anyway, we will see in time.
The off cuts were not quite long enough for  the job but I need to sort out a boot latch at the bottom end now so I hope I can cover the discrepancy without too much of a visible join. Failing that I could try and match in a couple of pieces from what I have left. 3mm alloy with a 5mm hole - probably weighs less than 2mm alloy and it has taken the compound curves of the boot well.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 29 May 22, 06:21 pm
Weekly log.
Lots of little jobs this week.
A couple of shots of how the boot hinges work, Position one for starting, position two for maintenance. Hinge pins from master cylinder pins with split pins for easy removal.
Time spent putting heavy duty valve springs in and not a few expletives uttered in the process. The valves have split collets and aluminum caps. Getting the collets back in involved losing them several times, taking the crank case cover off, shaking the engine upside down, employing the wife, and generally getting frustrated before "getting the knack".
No amount of YouTubing can give you "the knack" :-)

One positive from changing the springs was finding an extra nut that the factory had included loose in the rocker cover! That could have caused some aggro!

(not so ) common lizard on the marsh

A few hours preparing side one for the final skin and an added spring to the pedal.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: jim on 30 May 22, 06:58 am
That's really nice Jim, The quality of the workmanship looks outstanding like many of the new builds on here at the moment.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 30 May 22, 07:21 am
Thanks for that Jim, it is a bit experimental, but I suppose that's what CycleKart is all about. I know where the filler is ;D so it ain't perfect. I am not a million miles away from the engine starting, I suppose the proof of the pudding is in the, er, driving?  ;D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 31 May 22, 09:26 am
I'm on holiday this week, so besides the "melon" list (Honey-do) and a bar I'm knocking up in a mates man-cave it's time for side one, a job I have not been looking forward to. So far so good, but lots could go wrong yet.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Tinworm on 31 May 22, 07:56 pm
such beautiful work, Jim!
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 05 Jun 22, 01:25 pm
Weekly progress.
Side one trimmed up.
side two glued and trimmed up.
Both cockpit internal panels fit, glued and trimmed.
Grill cut and starting handle ferrule fit - but not fixed.
One of the bonnet panels cut - cant fit these yet and I have had enough for the day as the garden and a beer call.

The starting handle ferrule is a stainless sliding cupboard door pull left over from a job, holed and rolled on the wood lathe - I have another one or two which I intend to use for bling on the boot.

Thanks to Rhys and Synthpunk for their earlier comments on body torsional stiffness, double skinning the cockpit has made the whole thing stable enough to inspire confidence. :D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: RhysN on 05 Jun 22, 02:23 pm
I'm looking forward to the outcome with this car!
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 05 Jun 22, 02:27 pm
I'm looking forward to the outcome with this car!

Me too Rhys ;D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 11 Jun 22, 02:52 pm
Another week at it, along with work, picketing work, finishing off a mates bar in his mancave and a bit of shooting targets.

Progress.
> made the seat frame
> Turned a handbrake lever out of an off-cut of oak worktop
> Used an elbow catch epoxied into the handle and a bike brake lever to approximate a period lever -it should work "fly off"
> Put a stainless corner trim on the rear after a bit of gentle reshaping in the wood vice to provide a bumper to the corner
> trimmed out the center tunnel and added the ply strengthener to the brake/accelerator mounting (belt and braces)

I think that the handbrake might end up where it is in the picture. It is on the other side in the original car but having sat on the "wrong " side of the car to drive abroad on many occasions, the handbrake is always the last thing I get used to. So to the left hand I think it must be.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Applejack on 11 Jun 22, 05:14 pm
BRILLIANT work this is going to be very nice CK.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 20 Jun 22, 08:17 pm
Test post... My last two posts seem to have got lost

Try again...


OK. third time lucky.
Progress this week.
I had family up for a local festival so not too much to report.

Some upholstery with zig-zag springs over the seat frame which sits lower than a solid ply seat to have a low COG. I would have liked to go with patinated leather but a sofa has not come my way (Yet :-) 0

A bit of test fitting my friends handiwork on the exhaust before final welding.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Tinworm on 20 Jun 22, 10:41 pm
Funnily enough, Jim, I have been looking into this very thing and been trying to work out if there is a formula for working out how long a spring you need - given that it is bowed and not therefore simply a matter of measuring front to back. Did you use twine for stopping-side-to-side wobble of the springs.

To keep my low CG I am thinking of not having a wooden frame, but just two strips of aluminium bolted to the floor with spring clips riveted to them. How much do the springs compress; do you see them as a soft seat or as suspension?
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 21 Jun 22, 06:17 am
Morning Pete,
The springs I got were 30" long and cut down into two 13" springs and an off-cut. They were stretchable across the frame by hand without too much difficulty to stand about 1/2" high in the middle unloaded. I spaced the outer 2 pairs at 100mm centers and the inner two pairs at about 90mm centers.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172126524764?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=470965900978&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
The springs were tied laterally with plastic coated thin garden wire stapled well at each end. On top of the springs is a layer of 18mm grey medium upholstery foam and then the seat material which has another 2mm of foam for a backing.
Loaded with my weight sat, i sink to just below the surface of the frame with a bit of bounce left to travel above the two center rails of the chassis - so as low as I can go.
As for suspension, well it is just a soft seat to take the sting out of pot holes and ruts.
How it rides in practice is any ones guess but I can always alter it if it is not a winner.
 
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 21 Jun 22, 09:51 pm
Ok people.
I am at a point in the build where I need to paint something.

I hate paint.

It is my nemisis.

Paint makes a good job bad or a bad job good depending upon the skill of the painter...

If it begins with a P I have no skills.

This is the point of failure.

I am going BRG and black but I need tips and encouragement to bouy me through the process.
 Any input welcome 😁
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Tinworm on 22 Jun 22, 09:56 pm
Morning Pete,

Loaded with my weight sat, i sink to just below the surface of the frame with a bit of bounce left to travel above the two center rails of the chassis - so as low as I can go.

Thanks Jim
that last bit about you sinking to below the level of the frame tells me I need to re-think this, as I'd hoped not have a frame, so I'd keep hit the floor
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 01 Jul 22, 05:31 pm
It's been a lot more than a week since my last update but to be fair, the end of term is always busy, that coupled with a mystery non Covid flue bug and the possibility of voluntary redundancy (fingers crossed) and that is my excuse for A- not posting and B- not achieving much.

The real reason is I hate paint.

So, things achieved.
1 Painted the inside of the cockpit foot area and floor with black garage floor paint
2 Primed the boot lid and "radiator" cowl
3 Finished gluing on the body panels now the inside is painted.
4 Got the exhaust fully welded up but not yet fit. The bobbins need UNF nuts and I am waiting on them.

I am away the next two weekends so radio silence whilst we have a holiday.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 02 Jul 22, 01:45 pm
I am bracing myself already against the endless assumption that what I have is a Morgan. To that end I have started planning the subtle bling that can be pointed to when the question arises...
Here we see a stainless steel sliding door pull, holed and epoxied to the end of a racing bike handlebar to accept a bar end plug with the BSA piled arms logo on it.
When the bar end plug is removed, I could put a small Jackstaff in the hole for a pennant that reads, no, it's not supposed to be a Morgan, or alternatively, A CKGB flag or banner. I have contemplated a red ensign also as I used to have one on the back of the tandem.
... All good fun. ;D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 18 Jul 22, 12:41 pm
Back at it after a break in sunny Portugal only to find it is now hotter here  ;D

I will now be redundant from work from September the 1st. Bring on the Funemployment stage of life!  :D

After clearing several spiders from the engine bay today I got all the mounting points for the exhaust sorted.

This brings on the job of stripping things out to paint (did I mention not liking paint???)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 20 Jul 22, 07:18 am
Paint.
Not my forte.
Base layer.
2 coats of aluminium primer on the woodwork, flatted wet with 240 grit wet and dry.
More flatting back today and fine surface filler before undercoats.
Perforated aluminium boot lid bonded in with polyurethane/tiger seal etch primed 2 coats.
Spell check does not like aluminium. (we need a british one  ;D )
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Applejack on 20 Jul 22, 07:39 am
Looking great can't wait to see it finished 👍👍
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris Brown on 20 Jul 22, 09:45 am
Coming on well. Spell checker can be sorted, right click on the word it doesn't like, click on "add to dictionary", done.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris L on 20 Jul 22, 05:40 pm
Top body, like it !!    Have voted on your colour poll; Are you having Red wheels .....If it suits body colour ?

Chris L
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 20 Jul 22, 06:05 pm
Thanks for the comments all, it keeps up morale when flatting back wet and dry.
 I managed to sand through my fingertips today, wondered where the red blotches were coming from  ;D
Chris, it will be BRG, the wheels will stay black for now as I want it running before I bling it up too much, but red wheels are my preferred colour  :)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: StefanN on 22 Jul 22, 11:55 pm
Getting close now Jim.   Nice work.

Have you seen Ivan Dutton’s video about his Skirrow which uses BSA bits?  Thought you might be interested.

https://youtu.be/52NYh0hD2cI
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 23 Jul 22, 07:05 am
Thanks for this Stefan, I am now pretty certain to rock up at Haynes on Monday so I hope to meet a few of the club then in person. I am traveling with my better half and possibly a good buddy so I'm sure other things may be planned for the day, I will stay as long as I can 👍
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 30 Jul 22, 06:29 pm
Did I mention about not liking paint???

Two coats of aluminium primer flatted back, knifing putty, flatted back, two coats of dark grey undercoat, flatted back and another two coats of dark grey undercoat by brush and roller and it is getting about somewhere near.
It still could go horribly wrong.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 06 Aug 22, 07:12 am
This is certainly not the most exciting bit of the build... It's like, er, watching paint dry...
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 11 Aug 22, 10:06 am
Mid Brunswick green barge paint BS 381 -C-226
The photo has come out more yellow than it looks in the garage. As good as I could achieve with brush and roller. A bleedin fly to polish out of the bonnet  :-[

Wheels ground out on the brake disc side to fit over the front uprights
Things hard mounted in the engine bay ready for petrol pipe connection via a filter and a petcock - then to test run before chain.

Things still to do before first movement.
Paint boot lid
Assemble all painted parts and fit ironmongery
Finish attaching handbrake and shorten the cable
Check all nuts and bolts
When running right, add chain.
 :)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris L on 11 Aug 22, 06:12 pm
Like that shade of green , Jim  .........Getting close now
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 12 Aug 22, 01:56 pm
Cheers Chris
Been doing a spot of whipping (a boring task best accompanied by thoughts of the pirates of the Caribbean, salty sea dogs and shanties - and the Amazon prime folk channel)
I think the paint fumes must be getting to me! I even remembered a certain photo I took on the eastern sea board of Costa Rica a few years back... Can't think why? (exhibit B - answers on a postcard  ;D )

Anyhow... 3mm grey paracord. I had lots but I totally underestimated how much I needed for the job so Ebay and a wait to finish it off. Got sore hands now. Obviously a landlubber!
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Tinworm on 13 Aug 22, 04:55 pm
Morning Pete,

Loaded with my weight sat, i sink to just below the surface of the frame with a bit of bounce left to travel above the two center rails of the chassis - so as low as I can go.
As for suspension, well it is just a soft seat to take the sting out of pot holes and ruts.
How it rides in practice is any ones guess but I can always alter it if it is not a winner.

Hi Jim
Well I just did my springing along similar lines, though with a lesser span, I think, because with the same sorts of measurements, I had well over 1/2" above the seat. Like you, it compresses for me when I sit (of course). I do wonder what it will do in action. I suppose I hoped the springs might be a bit stronger/livelier.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Tinworm on 13 Aug 22, 04:59 pm
Yours is a really wonderful looking job, Jim!
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 13 Aug 22, 05:46 pm
Cheers Pete, too hot for the garage this afternoon so I had to go to the pub 😊 .,. Until it runs, all our thoughts on how it should work are just that.
The proof of the pudding, in our case will be in the driving. I fully expect some reworking to follow.😊
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 13 Aug 22, 05:50 pm
By the way, if anyone was wondering about my paint fuelled musings around the photograph "exhibit B" above. It was taken on the Carribbean coast and it shows clearly "the pie rates of the Carribbean" groan.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Moogie38 (Noel) on 13 Aug 22, 06:30 pm
By the way, if anyone was wondering about my paint fuelled musings around the photograph "exhibit B" above. It was taken on the Carribbean coast and it shows clearly "the pie rates of the Carribbean" groan.

 ::) Groan!! Classic dad joke 🤣
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Tinworm on 18 Aug 22, 10:29 am
By the way, if anyone was wondering about my paint fuelled musings around the photograph "exhibit B" above. It was taken on the Carribbean coast and it shows clearly "the pie rates of the Carribbean" groan.

groan. Good one
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 18 Aug 22, 11:17 am
Well, I am getting to the point of starting the engine. A nut and bolt check, add fuel and pull the rip cord.
But first I need to excavate a way out of the garage for it, a big job with a tip run or two ahead. I don't want to risk fire inside the garage so the hard standing it must be.
I scored a flyscreen off Facebook marketplace which took some freeing up and has the top of the glass " with a nice patina" de-laminating a bit. It was cheap enough.
I have to consider mirrors, Some trim around the cockpit to finalise and, when the engine and TAV are running right, attach and tension the chain.
Not figured out a testing facility yet but something will turn up.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris L on 18 Aug 22, 01:21 pm
Big Moment !!   Well Done  ;D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: jim on 18 Aug 22, 05:16 pm
That is looking very cool Jim. I bet you're looking forward to the test drive.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 18 Aug 22, 05:20 pm
Thanks both, and yes, in a way Jim a test drive is exciting, but probably the start of the fettling. Also I want somewhere with a long enough run to not be an issue if things don't quite go to plan. Fingers crossed  ;)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: RhysN on 19 Aug 22, 09:24 am
Got there! Yeeha.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 19 Aug 22, 03:17 pm
Number five is alive! ...
But already I find something I need to fettle.
The engine pulley on the TAV throws a wonk, It just looks like the outer cover but the functionality of it is not great either, it does not seem to let the top pulley idle...
Your thoughts please... See video here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--EtBo0z4Tc
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: jim on 19 Aug 22, 04:16 pm
How far onto the engine shaft does the pulley go on? Looks like only  the outer
is the wobbly part. There is a tophat shaped keyed spacer that the bolt goes through and secures the pulley. My pulley goes over the shaft about 20mm.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 19 Aug 22, 04:30 pm
The top hat spacer has good engagement with the key way, it is just the outer plate that does not seem to go onto the two flattened sides of the pulley. It is almost like it is the wrong shape.
The top pulley does not idle. if I add a little friction to it with a stick, it stalls the engine at an idle so something is amiss. Looked back at all the assembly vids and I seem to have everything in order and lined up. Will try again tomorrow.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: StefanN on 19 Aug 22, 07:48 pm
That's great!   Soooo close to driving it!

The 4 lobed part on the engine end of the TAV has one end with 2 flats which engage into the outer casing.  On the engine end of the TAV, from memory, the sequence is spacer, inner sheave, bronze idle bush, 4 lobed bit, outer sheave, weights and springs, outer case, top hat, bolt.

Where's the TAV from?  Is it the Gemini clone one?

Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 19 Aug 22, 07:58 pm
I will check the order again tomorrow Stefan, things to do tonight. It is an Alibaba special so not a lot of money in it if it is junk. It looks the part.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 20 Aug 22, 07:15 am
Eureka!
One of those moments in the middle of the night when your brain finds the answer and you are wide awake.

The wobble was from right order wrong orientation.
I had put the springy side of the outer engine pulley towards the engine.
Just swapped it around and apart from a couple of burrs needing attention with a file on the outer cover, no apparent damage. We will see how it goes before calling it a victory but it is too early in our sleepy neighborhood to start a cyclekart and keep friends.

*Update 11:18*
All fine and dandy now :-)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 21 Aug 22, 10:18 am
The first movement of the cyclekart. A momentous day. I seriously need to get used to the steering - very quick indeed.

Stefan - does this mean I can claim the race number?  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBgWlszbmGA
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: StefanN on 21 Aug 22, 03:23 pm
You’d best paint it on.   Good job!
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 21 Aug 22, 06:02 pm
Thank you all, you know who you are, all the ones who answered the emails, messages, teams calls and posts. without you I perhaps, would not have got this far. Thank you for the community of G.B CycleKart, it is a glorious thing worth celebrating and developing.  ;D
I will be fettling the BSA for some time I'm sure but the "build " part is , perhaps, over. Six months of fun and problem solving near an end. Who knows how many more sorting out the problems I may still encounter.
It has been a journey and a very good experience so far.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris L on 21 Aug 22, 08:22 pm
Number 5 Is Alive !!   ;D ;D......Nice One
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Applejack on 22 Aug 22, 12:02 pm
BRILLIANT job Jim. It's been interesting watching the build, looking forward to seeing you and No5 at one of the meetings.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Moogie38 (Noel) on 22 Aug 22, 06:01 pm
If its going to be number 5, you need to call it "Johnny"
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 22 Aug 22, 06:28 pm
Noel, I hope you are referencing the film and not suggesting it might have a Pr1#K inside it  :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Moogie38 (Noel) on 22 Aug 22, 06:33 pm
Noel, I hope you are referencing the film and not suggesting it might have a Pr1#K inside it  :D :D :D :D

Very good 🤣🤣 hadn't crossed my mind 🙄🤥.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 22 Aug 22, 06:53 pm
I'm probably going to call it Slippery Jim,
Not a reference many will know or get.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 25 Aug 22, 07:47 pm
I think I may have just been very lucky bagging this trailer, fully working and well maintained. It towed back 75 miles without issue and as steady as a rock for £500.
Only minor alterations to do to carry and hold all three wheels.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 26 Aug 22, 11:59 am
Not a lot to do to get it to fit, a gentle 1/4" bend outward on the channels to get it to fit the track of the cyclekart , remove one of the motorbike wheel holders - 4 bolts, easily reversible and add a wheel stop at the back and a bit of pipe lagging for protection.
I might add a couple of wheel stops for the fronts and then I have to figure out how to lash it on.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris Brown on 26 Aug 22, 02:11 pm
I'd suggest a ratchet strap each side, used with these over the front wheels: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201744669879?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=3Yt3k_lnRNq&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=GMBgc09hQ5a&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY.
Then a strap to hold the rear wheel down, only need 30mm wide straps as there's so little weight involved.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 26 Aug 22, 02:59 pm
Cheers Chris, I will look into those  :)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Seven racer on 26 Aug 22, 04:12 pm
Useful to see, I've been looking at bike trailers on Marketplace, but wasn't too sure about size etc. It looks to be a perfect solution, though I suspect all of the bike holders would have to be removed to get a 4 wheeler on. How long are the actual bike channels?

Peter
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 26 Aug 22, 04:53 pm
The middle channel on that one is just shy of 90", most of the ones I looked at before that were shorter. The channels on mine are welded to everything and would not move
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris L on 26 Aug 22, 08:07 pm
Think this pic may help you Peter , Ref sizing. Its a standard 2 bike trailer. (with a separate chassis. ie not reliant on skids for strength) .
I just bolted the "Skids" as far out as poss to suit our CK track.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: StefanN on 27 Aug 22, 07:59 am
I can’t decide whether your cyclekart has a moustache or is feeling sad…
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 27 Aug 22, 10:04 am
A sad Mickey mouse, as a neighbor had it Stefan 🤣🤣🤣
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Seven racer on 27 Aug 22, 05:18 pm
Think this pic may help you Peter , Ref sizing. Its a standard 2 bike trailer. (with a separate chassis. ie not reliant on skids for strength) .
I just bolted the "Skids" as far out as poss to suit our CK track.
Thanks Chris,  it seems to be the answer for me, fairly light, and doesn't take up too much room.

Peter
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 28 Aug 22, 11:39 am
Cockpit edges trimmed and the removable Jack staff made. I need to get out and test it now somewhere a little bigger than the drive.  ;D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 29 Aug 22, 06:51 pm
So, blinged up and at a point where, pre testing, I am happy I have met the criteria of emulating my inspiration car to a greater degree... Louvres added and a few touch ups
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Applejack on 30 Aug 22, 10:44 am
Lovely job Jim
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Pip83 on 30 Aug 22, 01:09 pm
It looks great, a really impressive build!
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: jim on 31 Aug 22, 05:51 am
That looks great Jim, I saw one (full size but not that much bigger) the other week and you have captured the spirit and look of the original beautifully.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 31 Aug 22, 06:57 am
Thanks all for the comments, I am looking forward to Sywell.
Today is my last official day at work so I hope plenty of time now to get a tow bar sorted and do some testing before then. I am sure my head will find many other jobs to do on the cyclekart between now and then
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 04 Sep 22, 09:15 am
A step backwards.
Checked the oil yesterday and it spilled out and smelled of fuel.
I have an over-fueling situation
Engine out, and I have to check the carb float seal and drain the oil + add new.
Any other reason this could be?
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 04 Sep 22, 12:38 pm
Well, the float is operating well, the needle is engaging in the seat, no apparent damage to the rubber tip of the needle. It looks like this is not the answer. Over choking in start up?
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Pip83 on 04 Sep 22, 04:00 pm
How old is the engine? just wondering if it's used and had a hard life with a fair bit of blow by. If it's a fairly fresh engine and it's only ever been run for a few minutes at a time, it could be just that the cylinder has never been hot enough to prevent too much wall wetting, where petrol sticks to the 'cold' cylinder walls and gets swept into the crankcase on the power stroke.

Could also be something else, but if it seems to running well otherwise, it may be worth getting it running for a good 10 mins or so on fresh oil and check again for a petrol smell.

Hope it helps and good luck tracking down the cause
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 04 Sep 22, 05:01 pm
Brand new out of the box lifan Phillip, so should not be worn. I will get it back in soon and give it a good run.😊
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 15 Sep 22, 10:21 am
Think I have sorted the engine out, touch wood, it is behaving. I have been corrected that what I thought was a jack staff is actually a flag staff due to its position on the vehicle. I got a small flag made from the logo file. if anyone has copyright and objects I will not use it.
All ready to tow now, a little testing tomorrow on a bit of land I have got permission for and Sywell next week. ;D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris L on 15 Sep 22, 11:24 am
Great job , Jim .   Pleased you are Flying the club flag  ;D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 16 Sep 22, 01:43 pm
First trip out to a small car park in a private location of a club I am a member of. Not the wide open spaces I would prefer for a full test but enough to give me first impressions.
1. It takes off like a scalded cat.
2. The throttle response is good, but the amount of travel the pedal needs to actuate the throttle takes a light foot.
3. brakes need bedding in but can lock up the rear
4. turning circle is great
5. Steering could get a little heavy on the arms if I did a lot of turning
6. REMINDER TO SELF!!! Don't dab the accelerator and turn in, you lift the inside wheel too easily"
7. Fix the front grill your fat belly dislodged whilst unloading.  ::)
I am claiming this as a success, it was fun and informative. The seat works well for a bit of comfort and the springs coped with all the pot holes in the car park... Here is a bit of video footage of the ride...
https://youtu.be/f7m3Q8fRNPc
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: RhysN on 16 Sep 22, 02:30 pm
What happened to the smile Jim?
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 16 Sep 22, 02:54 pm
Nerves Rhys  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris L on 16 Sep 22, 08:15 pm
Nice one Jim ....Congratulations
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: jim on 19 Sep 22, 08:17 am
Well done Jim, great to see another CK finished and moving under its own power.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Tinworm on 19 Sep 22, 09:09 am
That really does look elegant, Jim

Look forward to seeing it at Sywell
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 28 Sep 22, 07:11 am
After the Sywell shakedown, I am pleased to report nothing dropped off and "Slippery Jim" the CycleKart managed all the runs reliably. The engine works well and the standing start acceleration is good

There are, as expected, things to alter, some of which I did yesterday.

Slippery Jim decided 35 mph was the point the steering would get twitchy and I was not brave enough to push through it in front of a big crowd. I did not want to be the one in the back of the recovery land rover so discretion, valour etc.

The 3mm toe in had drifted to a touch toe out by the time I got home so some investigation needed as to the cause if it continues to move. At the moment I will put it down to settling in.

I had confused my camber for positive 1 degree when actually it was set to negative 1.2 degrees upon checking. As I could lift the inside wheel on heavy acceleration whilst turning, I have backed this off to 0.2 degrees negative. Only testing will see if I'm right.

I am on with making a second steering column to include the Safe-De-Speeder I have mentioned in another post. The steering was heavy and quick but the toe out and the negative camber cannot have helped that so this is still in the realms of me experimenting. (I'm just that kind of guy)

I am slowly planning bling for old Slippery having seen how the Karts are lifted as aesthetic objects when it is tastefully applied. I have nowhere to hang the furry dice so I will start with the dashboard and work out, I feel like tastefully designed campaign stickers for each event attended would be fun and am contemplating perhaps adding patina but this is early days thinking.

https://youtu.be/nowUJh0DIfk
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Tinworm on 18 Oct 22, 10:48 pm
am contemplating perhaps adding patina but this is early days thinking.

adding patina takes guts, when you are starting from a position where you have an immaculate paint job. I think Patina looks superb and I want mine to look tired too. But I will be going from shiny aluminium. Somehow I suppose you have to force yourself through the "distress" barrier.

Years ago I read an article on the distressing of an immaculate hot rod. The guy described crushing up cornflakes and mixing them in with paint to create a rough, crusty rust surface, which he painted around dents and holes. It must have taken guts making those holes. But the finished result was superb.

I use a similar method for putting a high-grip surface on wooden steps etc, using sharp sand in paint.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: StefanN on 22 Oct 22, 07:38 am
I’m looking forward to seeing it in person Jim.

You mentioned adding dials etc.   I’d recommend trying a local autojumble where you’ll find all sorts of trinkets to add.   There are also sets of copy cat Smiths instruments available on eBay for reasonable money, but they will look very new.

I thought this video on adding patina was quite good.  I’ve used the technique of adding paint around joints and fixtures and then wiping it off previously and it simulates accumulated dirt quite well.   Of course, it’ll develop its own patina the more you use it, which is clearly the most fun technique!

https://youtu.be/aO0XW0-RoeI
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 07 Feb 23, 03:02 pm
Playing around with a damping system...
https://youtu.be/Al6jxZ8xeyE
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: jim on 08 Feb 23, 06:07 am
They look gorgeous Jim and a I love the idea of re-purposing stuff.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 09 Feb 23, 03:58 pm
New tacho came today, vintaged it up a bit, just got to make it work now.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Pip83 on 09 Feb 23, 05:11 pm
The tach looks great, does it work ok on a single cylinder engine?
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 09 Feb 23, 05:14 pm
Should do, it is this one and as I have the CDI unit in and a proper coil it's the same set up as a GY6 https://youtu.be/j24FakjKaK4
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 23 Feb 23, 08:16 am
Still not got the tacho to work  :( But progress on the new steering arrangement is positive. I had donated a broken RSP dropper seat post a year or so back that was rattling around in the car boot. I threw it in the bin on Monday as the car needed an MOT and mucking out. On the way home I decided to fish it out and use the shell of it as a telescopic steering column. Here is the finished column after a trial fit. The biggest amount of lash in the whole system is in the steering quick release, everything else is negligible.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 24 Feb 23, 01:53 pm
Rack now in and geometry set initially at 3mm toe in. Everything is smooth and I have slightly more lock to lock angle than the pitman arm gave, but the turning circle was good enough anyway. I now have a full turn of the wheel lock to lock. After weighing everything removed and then weighing everything added, the weight penalty is plus 428grams. Not bad for a rack and a safer steering column. I won't get to test it out for a while as I need somewhere to do it and that means a journey of at least an hour on bad roads to my nearest kart track and then £50 an hour. Other things to do first
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 26 Feb 23, 09:23 am
String

String is a
Very important thing
Rope is thicker
But string is quicker.


Spike Milligan

... He obviously never bound a steering wheel!
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 01 Mar 23, 12:10 pm
Cheap ebay spot lights £24 for two six inchers.... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284204517183
Remove lenses, wiring, seal, one retaining hoop and add photo image of headlight, plywood backer, perspex cover and sealing tape makes a 802g spotlight 430g
Quite pleased with the outcome, just got to devise a way of mounting them now.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: StefanN on 02 Mar 23, 07:44 am
Clever idea.  I love that you’ve got the CKGB AGM joining instructions on the desk too - it’s like subliminal marketing.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 02 Mar 23, 08:08 am
Thanks Stefan, I just wish the image I got had a side light bulb in, not great for those gloomy days, I'll have to sort that come MOT time!  ;D ;D ;D

I always wondered what liminal is? Surely if you have subliminal you must have liminal  ???
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 02 Mar 23, 02:36 pm
Bracket done, number 5 now has a face.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris L on 02 Mar 23, 07:01 pm
 ;D Looks Great Jim..... Johnny 5 is Definitely ALIVE !
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: NewbieNick on 03 Mar 23, 03:51 pm
Nice work just had a pair of these Delivered for my MG.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 06 Mar 23, 11:00 am
Just a bit of bling left to do and I am ready for the season. A short video of the mods so far, TAV brace, strengthened engine mount, CDI ignition, steering rack, telescopic steering column, Headlights, tachometer, steering wheel strung, decals and numbers and a couple of other little bits. Just spinners and radiator cap to do (Shout out to Noel - Moogie for his work and patience on this one, a top fellow!)
Some may notice the change in the exhaust note now I have the CDI running. I did.
https://youtu.be/3San33b_nLg
 
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Ian Fletcher on 06 Mar 23, 05:18 pm
That's great Jim, really coming on well
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: uncantim on 09 Mar 23, 05:25 pm
Loving the details Jim, looks great
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 10 Mar 23, 01:56 pm
Snow at ours this morning but strong sunshine has warmed my garage enough to spray, Moogie's spinners sand up well!
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 17 Mar 23, 05:59 pm
Work on the radiator cap, not convinced on the colour but that might change yet. Thanks again to Noel for his design 😁 ... Newbie Nick, check your PMs for the headlight image 👍
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris L on 17 Mar 23, 07:52 pm
Great front "face " now Jim.  Jonnie 5 looks well happy
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: NewbieNick on 18 Mar 23, 06:36 am
Image received printed onto 350gsm this morning. Not allowed in garage until 8.00. Thanks again Jim. BSA Looks great.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 18 Mar 23, 02:20 pm
Not content with a pretty face, I thought I would add a voice too! A Hornet Mini with remote wire control. Not as period as a klaxon but the current draw on a klaxon is too much for the puny battery I have in.
https://youtu.be/0wbzX9EBS9U
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: NewbieNick on 19 Mar 23, 09:15 am
Jim's Brilliant Headlights alternative.
1st Picture Headlight made to Jim's spec 2nd Picture Jim's file printed on Marine grade clear back self adhesive vinyl attached to Perspex Disc . 3rd Picture as no 2 but illuminated.
Another version on way when glue dries if anyone interested
 
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 19 Mar 23, 09:34 am
That's absolutely Brilliant Nick
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Pip83 on 19 Mar 23, 01:24 pm
The spinners look fantastic, and the paint really finishes them off nicely.

Loving those lights, particularly the illuminated one.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: NewbieNick on 19 Mar 23, 02:27 pm
Final version (i think) 1st picture as original . Printed from file on 80 GSM Bond Glued to Perspex disk with PVA Perspex outermost doing away with plywood.
So now translucent. 2nd image illuminated with 12volt indicator lamp.

Jim check you email
 cheers Nick
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 19 Mar 23, 02:58 pm
Great job, I sealed mine with electricians tape and car body double sided green badge tape. I think if I did them again, I would go for 19mm self amalgamating ethylene tape... https://www.amazon.co.uk/GTSE-Self-Amalgamating-Waterproof-Rubber-Repair/dp/B0859JWPTH/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=Self+Amalgamating+Tape&qid=1679237812&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1&smid=A82TWSVY98E9Y
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 21 Mar 23, 08:40 am
My first ever "BSA" build. What a youth I was back then.🤣
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris L on 21 Mar 23, 02:00 pm
Very Good Jim .  ....Is that a Lomax ? (recognise the Citroen wheels)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 21 Mar 23, 02:25 pm
Indeed Chris, a Lomax 223, which was very loosely styled on a BSA
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 30 Mar 23, 08:43 am
I started this next bit of the BSA project with no confidence that it would turn out good enough to use. It borrows from a 1920's Seers shed design, skinned like an aircraft wing or a fabric canoe and has an end based on a cupola I once built. It should end up removable on four heavy duty over centre catches, and may also double as a glamping pod IF it works. It is not in its final position in the photos as I need room to work on it. It will be further forwards on the trailer.
I had a lot of the materials left over from building the conservatory and my outlay so far is less than £100.
I intend to skin it first in roofing membrane and then in polyester 3m wide theatre set back cloth which is the perfect width with a bit of overlap and not too stretchy. The whole thing then needs paint. Which is where I find differing opinions on line. So if any of you have experience skinning canoes or aircraft wings with fabric, answers below please.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Pip83 on 30 Mar 23, 09:19 am
That looks bloody brilliant.

I've got no personal experience with this sort of thing, but heard reference to dope being used, be careful of your source, some kinds are very expensive and the police frown upon its sale.

I found this place online, and it turns out, it's 30 mins away from me. If there's anything I can do in person to help, let me know. https://www.lasaero.com/products/category/E03HO21PT/
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: NewbieNick on 30 Mar 23, 03:40 pm
Really good stuff,well done
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris Brown on 30 Mar 23, 04:43 pm
I've used dope on tissue covered model aircraft wings, in the dim and distant past. Dope transforms tissue from something floppy you could poke your finger through quite easily, to a drum tight quite sturdy covering. So I'd suggest that's the way to go, model shops might have it in the sort of quantity you need, though the modern "put the radio in and use it" variety might just look at you blankly.

On the other hand an ebay search produced this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=shrinking+dope&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=tissue+dope&_osacat=0&_sop=15&LH_PrefLoc=1. It goes quite a long way, I'd think 250ml might well be enough,
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 30 Mar 23, 05:44 pm
The cellulose dope is not compatible with the polyester fabric and, as it is nitrocellulose based, a little flammable. The base polyester is flame retardant 180gsm /6oz/sq yd so about what the canoe boys use. Aircraft would use a non cellulose dope, canoe boys a polyurethane based paint. But some use any household paint and it holds water. I will probably be looking to shrink it tight with a hot iron, as it seems to be what the canoe boys do and use a non shrinking but opaque paint otherwise the writing on the roofing membrane will show through. I thought of stenciling our logo on if it was a success.
Paint is quite expensive, for three coats (canoe grade) I would need about 2.5l. as the first coat needs to saturate the cloth. Floor paint is cheaper, but I have no feedback on its efficacy.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 05 Apr 23, 06:01 pm
Been experimenting with paint and an iron for shrinking. I have the sides and half the end skinned and am full of the joys of spring https://youtu.be/LCD6Co2ZGYQ
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: jim on 06 Apr 23, 05:31 am
The super high level of workmanship on this CK and others at the moment has me in total awe of all your skills. (not worthy emoji if there is one lol)
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: NewbieNick on 07 Apr 23, 05:12 pm
Fantastic stuff . Hope to see it for real.
Nick
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 19 Apr 23, 11:13 am
Getting things ship shape for Silverstone, Slippery Jim rides again!
The canopy is still in need of paint, the door hanging and all the fasteners securing so that will have to be at a future event.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm0xu4fnIJA
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Moogie38 (Noel) on 19 Apr 23, 12:08 pm
Looking good Jim, love the canopy,  unique would be the word !
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 30 Apr 23, 03:44 pm
Trailer canopy now ready for road testing. Think that is wise before heading down the M6 with it.
Fingers crossed 🤞
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: StefanN on 02 May 23, 07:40 am
Very impressive.  You’ll have everyone on the M6 guessing what’s inside.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 02 May 23, 07:52 am
You think it needs some Hawaiian flowers and a "mystery machine" log on it Stefan?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Moogie38 (Noel) on 02 May 23, 12:23 pm
Put a radioactive sign on the back,  i bet you don't get any tailgaters.  🙂
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 10 May 23, 11:18 am
Well the trailer and the BSA made it to Stretton without incident and a grand day out was had.
The BSA proved reliable on the day, the new steering rack was a joy to use compared with the old Pitman arm set up and the tweaks to the geometry seemed to work.
The CDI system worked a treat with smoother power delivery across the rev range and a quieter engine. As before when I have driven it, it never felt like it was at its limit for power but I doubt I have topped 10hp with it. (I have no dyno) For this circuit, the power was more than sufficient.
I mostly kept it on three wheels, tight corners and too much power on the exit at slow speed was the cause of wheel lift each time. (same corner)
I was not quick. I suspected that the lack of a fourth wheel might make me a little slower and this proved the case. However, if you multiplied our lap times by our wheel count then the BSA was very near the other cars on the few timed laps we did.
As always I come away wanting to tweak a couple of things, less so than last time though.
The spark plug after a good thrashing shows the engine to be slightly lean - I will re jet the carburetor to the next size up main jet for next time.
I need a couple of touch ups on the paint on the spinners (oops) and the hood ornament  ;D
But that is about it. For a first test with corners I am very happy with "Slippery Jim"

Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Chris Brown on 10 May 23, 04:52 pm
First corner after the pits, going clockwise? Not saying why I suggest that, I'd never get the Morgan on two wheels of course, AHEM.
Title: Re: BSA 3 wheeler.
Post by: Jimr1999 on 10 May 23, 07:30 pm
No Chris 😁 last corner of the right left hairpin going clockwise, didn't go quickly enough to scare myself on that one 😁😁😁🤞