CycleKarts GB
Forums => Tech Forum => Topic started by: Jimr1999 on 30 Sep 22, 11:42 am
-
Morning all, and here I go again experimenting.
This is a winter project for me on the engine.
The aim is to widen the power band of the engine by having self advancing timing as the revs build, Like most motor vehicles.
Peak power should not be effected as our engines are designed stock to only produce peak power at about 3500 revs.
Quite a few people add 40 of advance by filing the key. I have not. Doing this shifts the peak power up the rev range.
with a 7:1 gearing plus TAV overdrive at 1:1, 6000 revs would give approximately 60mph!!! on a 17" wheel + tyre so our rev range for power is probably best low down, and ideally over as wide a band as possible. If I were a Kart with small wheels, filing the key would be a great advantage where I needed it as the gearing is lower. As we state 35mph as an aim for the CycleKarts, having a wide band of power around 3500 revs should be the aim.
I have come across a fellow in Canada who is producing basic CDI kits for our engines and persuaded him to ship me one.
If it works it should put less stress on the engine, have a better fuel economy, a wider power band, wider torque band and be easy to start.
These things are quite new and the fellow is a small business trying to establish a market. It is an experiment and I may go back to stock if it doesn't work out. If I were you and you were thinking of giving it a go, I would let me spend the small amount of cash on it first and see how it works out.
Thoughts please
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNaAdmFazp4
-
Very interesting, looking forward to reading your findings.
-
Looks good Jim and variable timing would certainly be an improvement. I imagine it will need a power supply, crank sensor and something to measure load such as a MAP or TPS sensor,
-
From what I can gather, it needs a 12 volt supply and draws very little current. , A 1 AH battery should last eight hours. It has a sensor on the flywheel and a CDI unit to handle the timing/advance depending on revs. This is attached to a coil pack and the plug.
His Facebook page is not too descriptive as is the YouTube channel. If it works out, I will post my results, if not I have blown a hundred dollars and shipping. And we all know either way.
Very few videos of the results yet from buyers on YouTube, as I say, all new. He says I am the first Brit to have one... Watch this space, it will be November before I get to it as I will be away
-
So there's no load sensing then, I guess it will just be a simple 2D rpm advance map. Not a bad price if it works as a Megajolt or Nodiz is more than that, but they will support a 3D map
-
From what I can gather that's about it, as I say any solid information is scarce, still, a 2D map beats no variable timing for widening the power band and optimisation of the engine. It is slightly better than a set of points and a vacuum advance with the coil pack too😊... Time will tell
-
This is an interesting experiment. Has it arrived? I’ve always thought the torque on these engines is remarkably flat and hence the power linear with RPM, within the narrow RPM band they show. I’d be interested to see the results from a dyno test of a stock engine across a wider RPM range - say 1000-6000.
-
Still waiting for it surface mail from Canada. I am almost giving up hope! I have a house project that will take me up until Xmas to fully finish at the moment Stefan so news on this will be after that IF it arrives. (I will also post here when (if) it does).
I do not have a dyno, but the system seems easy enough to mount and swap so a direct comparison would probably be relatively easy to do with the motor rigged to a bench. I can't imagine the overall power being too much more with the way we utilise the torque convertor as maxing it out rarely happens, I can see that it *should* widen the torque available as the firing point should be more optimal across a greater range if it is set up well.
Watch this space.
Jim
-
Nearly two months down the line and still no sign of the kit. Good job I am busy putting a posh porch on the back of the hacienda.
Just read that surface mail from Canada can take up to 84 days! (Phileas Fogg seemed to do more and quicker!) - and then it has to clear customs in the U.K. (possibly up to 2 weeks) ... I expect the huskys are on strike at the moment as well for improved chow and better conditions ;)
... As always, watch this space.
Jim
-
Well, three and a half months in the post and the Canadian surface mail has finally provided the goods. All I have to do is make it work. I have a battery terminal for a 12V Milwaukee battery of about 3AH, the only other ingredient needed is the battery which should be here in a week or so. When the system is live, it blows a small transistor in the original coil. If I need to put it back to normal it is a £10 part.
As always, watch this space
-
Morning all. I know a couple of you are following this, and if this is you , and you have looked at the Daniel Creaney CDI performance parts YouTube video channel, you will probably know that there is not a lot of easily accessible information on it. He talks through things very quickly and assumes you know things. Also the kits have changed slightly since some of his early videos.
The system does not seem to be rocket science but I thought an un-boxing video might help anyone who goes down this path after me... (Before watching, see erratum below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGunHrDCpJ4
-
Interested to see where this goes Jim, thanks for explaining it. I put CDI on my hard to start V8 and it transformed it, instant start, smoother idle and instant response when you floor it !
-
I now have to add an erratum to the above video. It seems (somewhat illogically to me) that the coil green terminal is the earth and the black terminal is the feed from the the CDI unit.
-
Well, I have eventually plucked up the courage to go into the sub zero, unheated garage and spanner the engine out of the BSA.
The CDI kit fit pretty much straight out of the box with the exception of having to make a small bracket for the coil as the one supplied fouled the exhaust a bit for testing. (not a problem if I had it in the cyclekart with the proper exhaust)
So the first start took a bit of doing as the engine has been sat for ages and I think I had a loose sensor wire. That sorted it went on pull 3 and went well... So I shot a small video of the second start after a couple of minutes of warm up for this thread...
https://youtu.be/_SM89pQSp8o
-
It pains me to say it but that looks very much like a GY6/Pit bike ignition module. I did wonder if one would do the job after you bought it, so would have been too late to save you money anyway.
They come in various "flavours" including AC ones which might run off a charging coil fitted to the engine:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161257436938?hash=item258bb1370a:g:Ov0AAOSwfMlcL9r~&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoBi2PPzcc1E1RPYMWNNeM%2BqVOtosB5RUe3wO8fQ247dvL7YAiE6XNhRUHYWAeYp9TOs9nLk%2FL264ESMIvosnU3e5%2BmVcqZUKyA168RnTQ7VsXwLbH5kdkDrete1OSnviAZaH8MPVbDRQUODH2U6BNDoFLsw4syVazAwG0Zhmm%2BAekuCqWQkHaKCo9ggEkOKbGG99uSPS7Iop1Iadng261oI%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7re-4C8YQ
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204167851518?hash=item2f895a2dfe:g:iCsAAOSw~Sla89eD&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoG3TQwA9RWp2DPSYpWVZPmPlz%2FTQhLWb5VcrqwpLkoYPuKVMnVh4KUuF0JaYod3Y4xIKnbS99fOKmCwELTa7Quo7UII3m6KTvYTHJxOF2iEXc3Dz2%2BvA6vm6MRNiauxB9pBBEkCtJh9%2B1tPkkHFZAsetrVJfvywBqXxN0J1tP22BBk3X7lZsU%2FXhJTCw5QYMKvGNq5tMVi%2F8dtYp%2B%2BCHxeY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8zi34C8YQ
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284973267620?hash=item4259bafaa4:g:AUAAAOSwAspbSa5-&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4LQnWfV0SqlNgNx9jY8Km57wZtv8vnNjo91S1GFCABpBZKtrK49EvR9PJemhd%2Bi%2BNXqsVtHhcUYmHSx4GVPVo0YUXlliQiRkRnGWWltRxk1X0Lt%2Fu%2Bw6qzOHJDyu5dz7Db2f3sX8VKrfd5mJedAI2cIz1ZYcxWlOqBqdBLLPre67kb%2FqTuqU%2BbgtP10IotfTBTmJPwav0%2FSdjH%2Bu%2Bz4h%2FGXkZUHjoB%2BpgS7ouyeqyMpudyM4U4xiZqKtjdC1oeKgIqwxK%2BeeqUIaB%2B4WqUQW%2Fd6tOoDrNWh2kALq9gevA7EZ%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR87i34C8YQ
Full search: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=gy6+ignition+unit&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_blrs=recall_filtering&rt=nc&_odkw=gy6+ignition&_osacat=0&LH_PrefLoc=2
I've got one of the "racing" orange ones you can try if you want to.
-
True, looking at the bits, the CDI is about a tenner, the coil about the same, the wiring and harness say a quid in bits. BUT the flywheel sensor is bespoke. On his website, he suggests that it is programmed with his own easy start programme. As I can't see inside the box, this is hard to verify. As I said at the start of this thread, I may be wasting my money. I doubt I could have replicated an accurate sensor for the flywheel so perhaps not?
-
Fair point, a sensor is the only thing that doesn't show up on the search, and I think it's integral with the alternator coils on a gy6 engine, and NO I'm not taking mine apart to find out!
-
Thanks for the offer of the box Chris, I was not trying to be ungrateful. If I ever fry this one, I would try an eBay one before going back to CDI performance parts. I do think that the guy deserves credit for trying to market this, the GY6 engine is reliable and runs well with good power for a small block. Even if it is just the same box, the firing point should place less stress on the engine especially at higher revs which places less strain on the internals. Time will tell. Experimentation is sadly what I always do. I just wish I had a Dyno :)
-
You didn't come over as ungrateful Jim, bouncing things around frequently gets results. A bit more research has turned up trigger sensors so they are available. I'm probably going electric with the Renault, but if that doesn't go to plan I may end up playing with a GX200.
-
Thoughts on the CDI kit so far…
Bearing in mind I still need to test it at an event, and the conversations that I have had here about it.
1. The bits look very similar to stuff you can get off Ebay for about £30 all in Except the Pulse/ Stator/ Trigger sensor which has been made bespoke for the GX200 type engine. I cannot track down a single trigger sensor with the same plug and wiring. A GY6 sensor might do (another £8 eBay purchase but it is an unknown). Another big unknown is if the internals of the CDI unit have a map to suit the GX200 or it is just a standard four stroke single cylinder map as for the GY6 engine. This said, the $100 (down to $80 on thanksgiving, Xmas, labour day, black Friday) plus postage – which if you choose land mail takes literally months - still seems reasonable to me given the unknowns of trying to create my own and adapting a sensor. If you do go down this route, budget for a rechargeable battery, charger and battery holder unless your system already runs off a battery.
2. The engine runs well, starts easily and it sounds more like a motorbike than a lawnmower now – yet to be tested in real life yet.
3. Adjusting the timing is very easy now as the flywheel stays put and the sensor moves. No hitting the flywheel nut with a hammer or levering, no need to lock the shaft to apply the correct torque. – I like that.
4. The first time I put the kit on, it ran well (see video above) but the plug showed that I had retarded it too far, two more adjustments to the timing and the plug is the right colour and it doesn’t spit flame on the over-run. I don’t want to add too much advance as this kills the torque low down, and torque low down was my initial aim rather than power at the top end.
5. The connections to the CDI box will need support to ensure they don’t vibrate out – an easy job. I will mount the CDI box on the cyclekart body, strap and tie the wires and cushion it to stop vibration killing it.
6. I can now fit a rev counter as I have a coil pack and a battery, at £10 off eBay, I think it will be worth it. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134348274927
7. The battery pack also gives me the opportunity to add cool stuff like a klaxon 😊
I am happy so far with it, the metal the sensor is on is soft, a good flat washer needs to be used under lock washers as lock washers cut up the surface. Gapping does not seem too critical either.
-
Update on how the CDI is working out. See attached doc.