Author Topic: King pins et.al.  (Read 321 times)

StefanN

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #15 on: 09 Feb 22, 08:16 am »
They look great Jim - like authentic car parts.

Just remembered that I posted a drawing of the Gemini king pin, in case it’s useful… http://www.cyclekartsgb.com/build-journals/bugatti-type-37-build/msg1442/#msg1442

David F-R

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #16 on: 09 Feb 22, 08:48 am »
Thanks Stefan. That's very helpful and pretty much what I worked out, though I'm replacing the top hat bushes with ball bearings and thrust bearings (as per Gemini karts top of the range front axle). It will give me something to play with while I finish the current loco.
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We must avoid torturing our brains with false problems, it occupies but it can annoy. In jest!

David F-R

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #18 on: 01 Mar 22, 01:13 pm »
Just starting to make up steering pivot - now modified.
40mm x 5mm yoke, 17mm axle from 25mm bar (more weld area, lower leverage) with m16 x 1.5 thread (easier than m17 to get dies for), bearings as above.

Before I commit, I'm planning 16 degree kingpin angle, 18 degree axle angle, 6 degree positive caster.
I'd value your comments.

Also, is 8mm okay for track rods or are they better at 10mm?
« Last Edit: 01 Mar 22, 05:46 pm by David F-R »
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Seven racer

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #19 on: 01 Mar 22, 10:33 pm »
If it's any comfort, (probably not because I don't know what I'm doing), I am also using 16 degree kingpin inclination, 6 degrees castor, and 8mm steering rods, so we are at least in the same boat!

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I think the geometry is close to what a lot of other karts are using, so there shouldn't be an issue there. With regards to the steering rods I just measured  those on my trike at 13mm, which is a Mk1 Escort rack. Given the difference in size and weight I don't yet see any need to worry about my decision to use 8mm, though time will tell, it shouldn't be too much trouble to upgrade to 10mm of there's any sign of bending or stress.

Peter
« Last Edit: 01 Mar 22, 10:39 pm by peterL »

jim

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #20 on: 02 Mar 22, 05:41 am »
I am pretty sure my track rod ends are 8mm on my Dodge Ck. I only have about 13 degrees KPI and that seems ok but I don't think its critical.
If you can drive round corners, you're not going fast enough.

David F-R

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #21 on: 02 Mar 22, 08:08 am »
If it's any comfort, (probably not because I don't know what I'm doing), I am also using 16 degree kingpin inclination, 6 degrees castor, and 8mm steering rods, so we are at least in the same boat!

Can you swim?

Seriously though, thanks Peter. I'll stick with the plan.
Nice front axle by the way.
« Last Edit: 02 Mar 22, 08:16 am by David F-R »
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David F-R

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #22 on: 02 Mar 22, 08:12 am »
I am pretty sure my track rod ends are 8mm on my Dodge Ck. I only have about 13 degrees KPI and that seems ok but I don't think its critical.

Thank you Jim.
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StefanN

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #23 on: 02 Mar 22, 08:26 am »
Beware of changes to caster that your spring set-up can introduce.  On an earlier version of the Bugatti, the caster decreased significantly as the springs were compressed.   So are the numbers right….it depends, but probably.



« Last Edit: 02 Mar 22, 08:28 am by StefanN »

David F-R

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #24 on: 02 Mar 22, 08:57 am »
That's really helpful, thanks Stefan.

If I remember from previous posts, your springs are 35 x 4. Graham Hills are 40 x 5 but he says they are too strong (YouTube).
Might 40 x 4 or 35 x 5 be a better bet? I'm quite heavy!
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StefanN

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #25 on: 02 Mar 22, 12:19 pm »
Difficult to say, partly because it depends on the length of the spring too.    There are other factors that influence the choice, such as the camber and the shackle angle changing the effective rate of the spring (the angle "softens" the spring).  Also, remember, many (most?) cyclekarts are rear biased in terms of weight distribution.

What length and camber springs are you thinking of?


David F-R

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #26 on: 02 Mar 22, 12:26 pm »
Difficult to say, partly because it depends on the length of the spring too.    There are other factors that influence the choice, such as the camber and the shackle angle changing the effective rate of the spring (the angle "softens" the spring).  Also, remember, many (most?) cyclekarts are rear biased in terms of weight distribution.

What length and camber springs are you thinking of?
I'm thinking (when the wiring stays put) of 600mm centres, 100mm camber.
By shackle angle, are you referring to the rear mounting or the axle shackle? (excuse my ignorance)
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StefanN

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #27 on: 02 Mar 22, 12:50 pm »
I assume you're doing longitudinal springs (not transverse), so yes, the shackles that connect one end of the spring to the chassis and  allow for the change in length as the spring gets compressed.

It's also possible to use trunnions that allow the spring the slide through - see Nic's Bugatti or Marek's Delage.  If the original car has them, as in these two examples, then worth considering, but it's the more complicated approach.

Given stiffness is proportional to the cross sectional area 35x5 will be 25% stiffer than mine and 40x4 will be 20% softer than Graham's (springs!).  I suspect any of them will be fine.   I think it's easier to stiffen the set-up than to soften, so maybe err on that side.  Just my opinion.

David F-R

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #28 on: 02 Mar 22, 03:05 pm »
I wonder if they do 35 x 4.5 - I can but ask.
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RhysN

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Re: King pins et.al.
« Reply #29 on: 02 Mar 22, 03:34 pm »
Most are just a bit wider than the chassis rail so that shackles are an easy make item. I have softened spring in the past by cutting width down with the trusty 1 mm disc in the grinder.
We must avoid torturing our brains with false problems, it occupies but it can annoy. In jest!